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| Laminating backs and sides http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=45745 |
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| Author: | PeterF [ Tue May 19, 2015 5:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Laminating backs and sides |
I've been thinking more about ukuleles recently and since their backs and sides are so thin, would it be possible to laminate them out of say 3 layers of veneer? I don't mean like plywood, but with the grain all running in the same direction, made from consecutive sheets, to effectively reconstitute it into solid wood. You'd be able to bend the sides cold and veneer is often a lot cheaper than solid 'tonewood'. You could also use wood that isn't normally possible to use, such as burls. Obviously it would be more work though. Do you think it would have an impact on the tone? |
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| Author: | Glenn_Aycock [ Tue May 19, 2015 8:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating backs and sides |
PeterF wrote: I've been thinking more about ukuleles recently and since their backs and sides are so thin, would it be possible to laminate them out of say 3 layers of veneer? I don't mean like plywood, but with the grain all running in the same direction, made from consecutive sheets, to effectively reconstitute it into solid wood. You'd be able to bend the sides cold and veneer is often a lot cheaper than solid 'tonewood'. You could also use wood that isn't normally possible to use, such as burls. Obviously it would be more work though. Do you think it would have an impact on the tone? I think Bogdanovich uses laminated sides (in his book). The laminations are denser/heavier and would likely affect tone, but I have no firsthand experience. Seems like a compound-curved surface, such as a back, would be more challenging (without a vacuum press). I'm interested to see how other hobbyists make such laminations. Thanks for bringing up the subject. Glenn |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Tue May 19, 2015 9:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating backs and sides |
There are many ways to skin the cat for laminated sides. Check out Jeremy Clarke's facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/52instruments. In the pictures on the left, he has a bench portrait of his new side laminations. Pretty interesting concept, if you want really stiff sides. He incorporates the linings into the lamination. Uses WRC, to keep the weight down. Jeremy makes fine, artistic, one of a kind classical guitars. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Wed May 20, 2015 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating backs and sides |
I use lam sides / backs on some ukes I use a lot of weight to lam backs e.g. cinder block |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Wed May 20, 2015 9:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating backs and sides |
Clay S. laminates sequenced veneers (though maybe not on ukes) Hopefully he'll stop by with his method and impressions. |
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| Author: | Rodger Knox [ Wed May 20, 2015 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating backs and sides |
There should be something in the library, Clay posted a thread where he made a parlor guitar with laminated BRW veneer. |
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| Author: | mcgr40 [ Wed May 20, 2015 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating backs and sides |
I was reading this one again viewtopic.php?f=10117&t=21455&hilit=double+sides#p297248 yesterday. Not exactly laminated from commercial veneers, but I like the notion of the stiff rim Burton gets from the laminated bindings. |
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| Author: | PeterF [ Wed May 20, 2015 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating backs and sides |
Rodger Knox wrote: There should be something in the library, Clay posted a thread where he made a parlor guitar with laminated BRW veneer. Well what do you know, I actually commented on that thread! Must have been where I got the idea.  Its interesting to see that other people have done it. I'll have to give it a go on my next one.
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| Author: | PeterF [ Wed May 20, 2015 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating backs and sides |
mcgr40 wrote: I was reading this one again http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/view ... es#p297248 yesterday. Not exactly laminated from commercial veneers, but I like the notion of the stiff rim Burton gets from the laminated bindings. I love Burton's build threads. I think his work has to be the cleanest, neatest and most perfect I've ever seen! |
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| Author: | mcgr40 [ Wed May 20, 2015 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating backs and sides |
I do wonder if you could make the back/sides even thinner than normal in this manner since you would have a bentwood lamination. I have laminated 1/16 into curves and they were much stronger than wood of the same dimension. Looks like alot of testing/work/though. But you could have a crotch or burl back that was strong/ safe /stable. Maybe deflection test a back with tonal properties you like and then try a laminating various thicknesses/specie to get a similar deflection? |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Wed May 20, 2015 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating backs and sides |
"I do wonder if you could make the back/sides even thinner than normal in this manner since you would have a bentwood lamination." You probably could. Three layers of 1/32" thick veneer gives you about a tenth of an inch. Some veneer is cut at 1/48th inch thick, so 3 layers should give something closer to 1/16". I've used carbon fiber cloth in place of a layer and it was a bit thinner. I have made a couple of ukes with laminated veneers (back and sides, solid wood tops) and they worked fine. For laminating I place the veneer glueup between wax paper and then clamp it between two pieces of melamine coated particle board or MDF - something with a smooth surface. I make sure the veneer is very dry (even if I have to heat it up to drive out any moisture) before gluing with epoxy resin. I have built guitars, octave mandolins, dulcimers and ukuleles using this method for back and sides, and have gotten results similar to my "solid" wood instruments. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed May 20, 2015 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating backs and sides |
PeterF wrote: mcgr40 wrote: I was reading this one again http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/view ... es#p297248 yesterday. Not exactly laminated from commercial veneers, but I like the notion of the stiff rim Burton gets from the laminated bindings. I love Burton's build threads. I think his work has to be the cleanest, neatest and most perfect I've ever seen! Yeah that is some impressive engineering there. |
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| Author: | Glenn_Aycock [ Thu May 21, 2015 6:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating backs and sides |
Clay S. wrote: ... before gluing with epoxy resin. Do you favor epoxy over wood glue in laminations for any particular reason? Tonal qualities or logistics? The density probably gives a brighter tone? Glenn |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Thu May 21, 2015 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating backs and sides |
Hi Glenn, I found that keeping water out of the lay up increased the stability of the final product. That is one reason I dry my veneers before using them. There is some bleed through with West system epoxy so I use the more expensive clear 207 hardener . I pore fill with epoxy so bleed through is not a problem. I also like to leave the layups "in the clamps" until fully cured (3 -7 days) . Other people use other glues (Unibond?) but I don't have experience with them. |
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